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Discussion: It's not just women: what about Jews, Latinos, and Cubanos, & whites?
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AlanHarrison |
It's not just women: what about Jews, Latinos, and Cubanos, & whites?
May 24 2008, 2:20 PM EDT
I'm Jewish and I've been told by other Jewish DEMOCRATS not to vote for Barack Obama, even in the general, because he backs Hamas and Hezbollah and they want to kill me. As a Caucasian, I've been told by other white Democrats not to vote for Obama because he has a race-baiting pastor, and somehow, by the way, he's also Muslim (I even point out the direct lack of logic there, but it doesn't seem to matter). I've also been told by men who are not part of either party not to vote for Obama because John McCain is somehow a real man, whatever that means, and only he seems to be the "straight talk" candidate. Even though he's not, and has flip-flopped so many times he should have whiplash.As ludicrous as these claims are by these people, I worry that there will be two conventions on TV in the late summer: one with 90% white folks and one with 0% white folks. And white folks with no education are going to see that and believe that they're supposed to back the candidate that looks most like them, no matter what, because many are still bound by the slow, insidious nature of common, just-below-the-surface racism. We can't do anything about the Republican convention, except to point out that they're so completely unbalanced in membership with white people that they are the blatantly racist party. The party of David Duke. But we should make sure that the convention has enough non-elected (meaning not Governors, Representatives, Senators, Mayors, etc.) pledged delegates for Obama that the fear and racism recedes among these voters, and they'll remember that there's still a war in Iraq killing Americans by the thousands, still an economy based on oil men getting fat, and a country that has divided its citizenry into a 1% have/99% have-not society, with the "haves" getting all the perks. What do you think? Alan Harrison Candidate for At-Large Delegate See you in Spokane! 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
megacious |
1. RE: It's not just women: what about Jews, Latinos, and Cubanos, & whites?
May 25 2008, 2:01 PM EDT
I've watched the Republican National Convention every four years and you're right, it has been 90% white. However, the Democratic National Convention has never been 0% white folks and it will not be 0% white folks this year. However, it will be inclusive, as well it should be. I believe that is what is wonderful about the Democratic Party. Everyone should have a seat at the table.But as far as being able to affect the fear and racism among these voters, what I feel Senator Obama needs to do is to find some "shared identity" with them. I do not feel that four days of looking at the make-up of the delegates is going to affect these voters' decision. And I'm really not sure how the make-up of the pledged delegates for Obama could truly change the fear and racism among these voters. Fear and bigotry are core values that are developed over a long period of time and are not changed over the course of seeing predominantly white faces at a convention. I truly believe that they see Senator Obama as an "other", and this has been encouraged by pundits who have been painting him as an "other" by saying he is an elitist Muslim who doesn't wear a flag pin. He needs to counteract this perception of "otherness" by pointing out the commonalities of working class people of ALL races, how government has not served them well, and what he will do about it. Leonard Pitts wrote about this issue in the Seattle Times today. Here's the link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2004434979_pitts25.html Meg Tapucol-Provo Candidate for At-Large Delegate 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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megacious |
2. RE: It's not just women: what about Jews, Latinos, and Cubanos, & whites?
May 27 2008, 11:28 AM EDT
To piggyback on this comment, I was speaking yesterday with an Asian American friend of mine, Kathy Hsieh (Alan, you know her, as she is very active in the theatre community). The one group that has been invisible in the national political conversation has been Asian-Americans. We've heard about how the black vote has impacted the election. How the white working class vote has affected certain primaries. How the Hispanic vote affected certain primaries. But not one word about the Asian-American vote. In California, where Asian-Americans are a huge demographic group, Asian-Americans voted for Clinton by a ratio of 3-1, but it was never discussed by the mainstream media.Many of us who are first generation Asian-Americans are children of immigrants. Many of these older immigrants LOVED the Clintons. However, and I hate to be blunt, there is a sentiment out there that they are not voting for Obama because he is black. My older cousin actually came right out and said that was why she wasn't voting for him. (Some of you who are not familiar with older Asian immigrants--well, they don't necessarily care about saying things that are politically correct.) When I talked with my friend Kathy about this, she confirmed that that was the same sentiment among the older Chinese community, that there was just this general discomfort with voting for an African-American candidate. My mom in California voted for Clinton, however, she said she will vote for Obama during the general election, but with reluctance. Frankly, I thought that would have been newsworthy, particularly when a demographic group votes for a candidate by 3-1, but I guess not. I belong to Asian Americans for Obama, which is a national group of Asian Americans who support Obama. I am talking to every Asian-American person I know, many of whom support Clinton right now, and making sure that they will vote for Barack Obama during the general election. 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AlanHarrison |
3. Russian, German, Alsacian, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, Korean...?
May 27 2008, 11:02 PM EDT
A great point, Meg. I think part of the reason that Asian Americans do not get their due is similar to the reason that Jews are not considered a "minority." One: "Jewish" and "Asian" does not refer to a particular country, which is how most white Americans define their heritage. We don't seem to be Russian Jews or German Jews, or Sephardic Jews, but just Jews. And Asian...there are great differences between Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Indian, etc., but the larger white majority tends to trivialize and categorize by just using Asian. And two: with obvious concession to the amount of truth found in any general statement, Jewish Americans and Asian Americans have found that education and assimilation are the two tickets to higher rungs on the economic and social ladder in America, and in doing so, have caused great enmity from non-Jews and non-Asians. That being said, I think it's important to bash down these walls as much as possible by pointing them out. That's why my delegate page has a slightly provocative headline and that's why it's so important that we try to move to a post-racial time in America. I know I'm dreaming a bit, but if it weren't for the old baggage of prejudice that white America has placed upon us, maybe we wouldn't have assimilated those characteristics as well, and maybe the idea of an African American president wouldn't be anathema to people like Kathy's and your mom, and my mom (also a Clinton supporter and says she's "holding her nose" to vote for Obama in the fall). Just a thought... 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
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megacious |
4. RE: Russian, German, Alsacian, Japanese, Chinese, Indian, Korean...?
May 28 2008, 3:08 AM EDT
I agree that talking about these differences will help us in achieving greater understanding. I hear the term "post-racial" a lot and although many would like to believe we've gone beyond race, I think it's really disingenuous to believe that. What I do believe is that it is still so, so hard for many people to talk about race comfortably. They are afraid to talk about it because they are afraid of offending. On last Sunday's "Meet the Press", one of the white guests mentioned how queasy people get talking about race. Gwen Ifill replied that people of color talked about race because it was part of our life, but were queasy talking about race with folks who were queasy talking about race. It's so true!That really resonated with me. The term "post-racial" feels like the term "color-blind". "Post-racial" - getting beyond race. Prior to this election, when the general election candidates were white, why was there never any talk of them being post-racial? We were never asked to look beyond their "whiteness". So it seems to me that what we are really being asked to do is look beyond Obama's "blackness". An interesting link about the post-racial concept: http://kymlee.newsvine.com/_news/2008/03/21/1381844-racism-and-what-it-takes-to-become-truly-post-racial I was also watching MSNBC, and remember hearing two commentators talking about race and how it was affecting the primaries. One mentioned the term "color-blind" in describing Obama's campaign and I just cringed. The notion of being "blind" to a person's color is ludicrous and offensive. It suggests that it is an aspect of their identity that you are unwilling to acknowledge. It's just as ludicrous as saying they are not going to notice that Gary Locke is Chinese or that Ron Sims is black. By the way, was Gary Locke a "post-racial" candidate? 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AlanHarrison |
5. Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 28 2008, 5:29 PM EDT
Of course, you're right. My definition of "post-racial" is obviously not what the media is using, as a way to comfortably describe a world in which, I guess, we're all clear-skinned, only revealing veins and arteries and bones and such, like those diagrams in Gray's Anatomy (the book, not the TV show!). Frankly, that world sounds unattractive.My definition of "post-racial" has to do with identifying race (or ethnicity or culture or whatever word fits the moment) and acknowledging the stereotypical cultural baggage that in today's world goes along with it. In that sense, we have not had a "post-racial" candidate, because we'd have to have a "post-racial" segment of society to go along with it. Having spent significant time in Montgomery, Alabama (I don't recommend it), I've noticed that whites there, in the main, have no trouble talking about race with African Americans or each other. At first, this seems refreshing, as there is a candor about it. But soon, the cruel nature of it demolishes any notion of civility. An interesting point on this is the influx of Latinos and Koreans into the city. From what was a 50-50 ratio of whites and blacks, there is now a 5% portion that is Latino and 5% Korean (from the new Hyundai plant). And, as you probably guessed by now, the preponderance of the whites and blacks feel resentment and some fear toward them. They speak a foreign language, don't attend the Baptist church, and, you guessed it, they're stealing jobs from _____ (fill in the blank). I think perhaps some people, at least in their minds (I hope Kathy's and my mother are reading this) ARE being asked to look beyond Obama's blackness, in the sense that their vote is not based on the color of his skin but on the leadership, intelligence, common sense, and inspiration he has given all of his supporters like you and me, whatever our heritage happens to be. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
laire |
6. RE: It's not just women: what about Jews, Latinos, and Cubanos, & whites?
May 28 2008, 6:16 PM EDT
Unfortunatley, race and sexism will always play a role in our society the only thing we can do is try to reach out to people and educate them. There probaly will be a part of our society that will not vote for Obama in the fall. This is why its so important to replace those votes with new voters. I think the Obama camp has the right approach as far as going after the west. If you can get the West you don't need the South and still may get VA, NC so he can change the map which knocks off the anti-Obama vote. The republican brand is in bad shape which usally means less republican vote turn out. I think our main concerns should be to rally the democratic base as far as women and going after the Cuban vote in FL and increase the black turn out in the south. I believe latinos voted 44% for Bush, which means we must change these numbers. I think the only reason latinos voted this high for the republican party is due to religion and Cubans with the embargo on Cuba.
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laire |
7. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 28 2008, 6:26 PM EDT
Alan,I agree with with you people will have problems with people that they see as diferent. However, I think once the different communities start interacting with each other they will see less of a difference. I think given the the situation in this election I really do believe people will vote more of their interest instead of so-called values. Do you find this valuable? |
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megacious |
8. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 28 2008, 6:36 PM EDT
I think what I was trying to get at in my previous post was that looking "beyond" a person's skin color somehow suggests that there is something negative about a person's skin color that they have to get past. Otherwise, what is there to get beyond? (The reason we have NEVER been asked to look beyond a person's "whiteness" is because it has never been assumed to be a detriment.) It's the same thing as being color-blind. A Native-American friend of mine who I performed with in The GAP Theatre (diversity theatre company) had a t-shirt that I loved. It was a take-off on the "Love Sees No Color" t-shirt. It said. "Love Sees My Color, and Loves My Color." It's about seeing the person's color but not having negative judgements about their color. People say that children see no color, which is not true at all. They're just not saddled with all the baggage, biases and stereotypes that are attached to people's color. But of course children can see the differences between people with different skin colors or different facial features. Any biases that they have about those differences are LEARNED from external sources.Of course, I would hope that people are voting for Obama because they believe he is the best candidate, based on all the things you mentioned--his leadership, his common sense, the way he has inspired the country. This week's Newsweek explores in detail how race is a factor in Obama's campaign. This is something I think about constantly, I guess because I have been in the diversity field for 17 years and I know that even though we have come a long way in those 17 years, there is still work to do. I think we've seen evidence of that already in this primary season. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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laire |
9. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 28 2008, 7:43 PM EDT
Meg,I really agree with you on looking past skin color. You are who you are being black, latino, jews, asian etc is a part of you. Just like culture or education etc. You don't want to become invisible but at the same time you don't what your so-called race or culture to be the center piece of who you are, its simply a part of you. In saying that, I don't think we want the society at this point to focus so much on race. We don't want Obama to become the black candidate but the candidate who represents our policies and vision for the democratic party and America. Once he becomes the president of this country I then think we need to have an all out discussion on race, sex and culture in this country. We need to figure why we seem to just have common intrest and not common ideas. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AlanHarrison |
10. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 29 2008, 1:41 AM EDT
"I think what I was trying to get at in my previous post was that looking "beyond" a person's skin color somehow suggests that there is something negative about a person's skin color that they have to get past. Otherwise, what is there to get beyond? (The reason we have NEVER been asked to look beyond a person's "whiteness" is because it has never been assumed to be a detriment.) "I don't think that post-racial has a negative (or positive) connotation. I think that the reason why we've never been asked to get beyond a presidential candidate's "whiteness" is from lack of diversity among those candidates. There were those in 2000 that had to get beyond Joe Lieberman's "Jewishness" to vote for Al Gore. (And don't get me started on what the hell happened to Joe Lieberman, that's another story entirely.) There were those that had to get beyond John Kennedy's "Catholicness" to vote for him. Do we live in a post-Jewish or post-Catholic world? Maybe yes, maybe no. But the right-wing (and even some mainstream) media would have us believe in the most condescending manner possible that a) they do; and b) we shouldn't. Diversity is multi-dimensional. There are 6 billion different people on the planet, and each believes that he or she is part of a group that matters and also part of a group that is frowned upon. Or hated. Or worse. I guess all I want is a president who gets that, and can help guide all of us through that process, exposing all the faults in it, so that we can not be controlled by those who benefit by continuing to split us apart. To me, that would be a post-racial world. Perhaps it's a fantasy...for now. But all we can do is all we can do to, at the very least, get this man elected. That's a pretty good start. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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megacious |
11. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 29 2008, 9:40 AM EDT
Thanks Laire. You're right about Obama not becoming the "black candidate". Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton were both seen as black candidates and as such were never truly competitive candidates for the Presidency. Obama is seen as representing all of us, and I do think a majority of the population does see that.
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gunnbl |
12. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 30 2008, 2:04 AM EDT
" we've never been asked to get beyond a presidential candidate's "whiteness" "It's true that white people have not been asked nor do they feel the need to "get beyond" the whiteness of the vast majority of presidential candidates, but certainly non-whites have had to do this. I've experienced too much racial animosity directed at me to ever deny that other people may view my whiteness as a barrier between them and myself. They assume initially that I share the bigotry of my ancestors which is itself a form of prejudice. It is difficult for any of us to unlearn what we have been carefully taught (to quote Rogers and Hammerstein), but it is our duty to try, and what distresses me the most is when I see folks stop trying. Obama impresses me because he has lived in a racially mixed family and has the tenacity to keep trying to bridge those divides in his public life as well. This is something we all have to WORK at, no matter how progressive or evolved we believe ourselves to be. Obama as president might force some folks to work a little harder at this crucial task. 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
KDalen |
13. RE: It's not just women: what about Jews, Latinos, and Cubanos, & whi
May 31 2008, 2:17 AM EDT
I've just caught up in this discussion. I really want to speak to "blackness" or "otherness." When I was growing up there was NEVER a day when I was not other--not by my action but by the behavior of those around me: my teacher, other teachers, school administrators, janitors, bus drivers, church parents, police officers, carnies, plumbers, store clerks, kids, etc. It was a rough time for a young black kid in a conservative county. Once a week, at least , it was pointed out to me what other I was: black (not often in such nice words). You can imagine what other kids went through this as well. One of my friends was Native American, Jesse--she got it to, bad. I took it as a badge of pride--I would show them I could be good and strong and smart. Others took it in other ways. For me it became a badge of courage and struggle; I watched the riots on TV and my heart broke and then strengthened--I became proud and beautiful. I do not want people to doubt my blackness; I paid for it. Times have changed. The place I live in has changed. The people I befriend are different. I never thought to hate people. I chalked it up to ignorance and fear. I went into teaching. I spoke out, even in high school. Now I try to create bridges of understanding. But i have never been "color-blind," and I don't want to be color-blind. I love color; I delight in diversity. Barack Obama grew up in a different atmosphere. Hawaii is another place altogether. He had to opportunity to have several others around him who could support him with understanding and empathy not to mention a small or large group of white folks who believed in him. I see in him a confidence that does in fact transcend color. Though I have no doubt he knows he is black, his life has not taught him that that was a "problem." The problem then seems to be here, not in our state, but in our nation. There is a current of racism that flows below eye level. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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KDalen |
14. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
May 31 2008, 3:06 AM EDT
One of the interesting things I have encountered involve my relationship with Africans who have come to America to teach or to learn. They, for the most part, have little understanding of what it is like to grow up KNOWING you are "black," knowing you are less than good enough, less that beautiful, less than qualified, free to be used; they seem to tackle their lives, here in my small berg and the greater Seattle area, as though everyone has a "right" to succeed, and for them there is no more fight than there is for anyone else. What is telling is when they have tried and tried, and now they live among those who have failed. I have known a few of them. Many of them have learned to blame it on their "blackness" (it begets another discussion). And yet I have seen so many Africans succeed!!This is not to diminish Obama's struggle growing up. No matter where you lived in America--well, there were some bad times. I'm just saying, don't, please, take away my struggle, and don't, please, take away all the work Obama has done to recover from what he must have gone through; to love those folks who surrounded him with love, and for heaven's sake don't discount the racism still rampant in our nation--and I want racism to be gone--oh heavens. let it be over (honestly, one of the first things that gave me nightmares was when I learned about the Japanese Interment camps right after I'd learned about the German concentration camps--Oh Wow!!! to much information for a 12 year old). (Okay, I'm old. . . ) Now how this works into other othered peoples lives? I am not sure--though I have done some research. and I continue to ask questions 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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megacious |
15. RE: Post-racial, color-blind, and other pat answers
Jun 2 2008, 11:23 AM EDT
It's so interesting how people see things through different lenses. As people of color, we see the world through the lens of being the one who is "different". Gunnbl, you are of the dominant culture, yet you also had the experience, in your childhood, of being the one who was "different' by virtue of your skin color, and it has informed your world view. There are millions of people who never have the experience of being around those who are different from them, and therefore, their perceptions of those who are different are based on what they see in the media, things they've heard from other people, in short, based on stereotypes. NOT from their own personal experiences, because their personal experiences have probably been either nil, or few and far between.I had an interesting discussion this past Saturday with some friends from my daughter's soccer team. We were having dinner at the Old Spaghetti Factory and I had mentioned that I was running for At-Large Delegate. What was interesting was that the people were bringing up old rumors about Obama (i.e. his refusal to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the Jeremiah Wright issue) that to me sounded like excuses not to vote for him. For example, I had never heard about the Pledge of Allegiance issue, but when I looked it up on the Internet, it was totally and utterly false, and the picture that was alluded to by this woman was not about the Pledge, it was the National Anthem. I feel if people really wanted to know the facts, they'd do some research rather than take things at face value. Yet they believe what they want to believe in order to support their own biases. This woman never bothered to find out the truth. And that is the way it is when certain people come across any information about people who are different than them. They believe the information that will support their own biases. Meg Tapucol-Provo Candidate, At-Large Delegate 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
iamjessica |
16. Reality of post-racial
Jun 9 2008, 1:59 PM EDT
I'm a mutt. On my pedigree I can list Jewish, Polish, Ukrainian, Cossack, Gypsy, Irish, Austrian and Welsh ancestors. I've grown up of a post-racial mindset, yet was still the target of hate crimes by the Aryan Nations in 1999. I've listened to my step-dad make racist statements much like Obama's grandmother. As much as I think I don't see things as being an issue, it's a reality that others do whether they realize it or not. I remember taking my daughter to a pow wow in Spokane last summer. She's of Native American, Hispanic and Creole descent (added to all of mine), and I remember her face lighting up... "Hey mom, they look like me! They have skin just like me!" She felt a sense of belonging and identity that was somehow lacking in her young life. Things that Obama said in his book, "Dreams of My Father" finally made sense to me. Liv like Obama was without a father, and growing up in a white family. As much as I raise her to not look at race and to believe that everything is possible, she still had somehow felt like an "other." So that's the balance I think. We must celebrate the uniqueness and find our own social and cultural identity, yet judge someone based on their own merits. If we are able to focus the debate on the issues, then maybe we can turn this world around. 3 out of 3 found this valuable. Do you? |
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megacious |
17. RE: Reality of post-racial
Jun 9 2008, 2:43 PM EDT
It sounds like you have a great degree of empathy, Jessica. Of course everyone wants to belong. Barack Obama's nomination has shattered the glass ceiling for all people of color. Young children of color have always been told, "You can be whatever you want to be, even the President of the United States!" But you know what? It never rang true because it was NEVER a reality, NEVER even a remote possibility until NOW. NOW there is a REAL possibility that it can happen, and so when people say that, it feels TRUE. We finally know that it can happen. That people of color really belong.I really sense during this campaign that people of color feel a sense of belonging that has been newly awakened. Meg 4 out of 4 found this valuable. Do you? |
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iamjessica |
18. RE: Reality of post-racial
Jun 9 2008, 4:10 PM EDT
Beautifully put. Thank you.Today I was browsing cafepress.com for new and unusual shirts and the like supporting Obama to wear to convention and when I am out working the campaign. I was so beyond appalled at what I saw. There was everything from anti-gay gear to "half-honkey all donkey" to anti-muslim sentiment. I wrote them to tell them why I wasn't going to be making purchases from their site... but it was a timely reminder on how far we've come, and how far we need to go. 1 out of 1 found this valuable. Do you? |
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AlanHarrison |
19. RE: Reality of post-racial
Jun 9 2008, 6:17 PM EDT
I've been decisively ambiguous about this balance of race and post-race. I am sorry to have believed that that I could not do certain things based on my own heritage. To have been told by an influential executive that "you people are just so funny, and you're so good with your money." To have been told by a potential donor that "you should do more plays for the Jews, 'cause after all, they're the ones with the money." And then to have been told by my own party that I do not qualify as a minority while others do, and therefore should not be specifically represented at the convention. And on the other hand, I am not a victim either, nor do I ever want to be perceived as one. I believe now that race victimizes us, defines us, and guides our actions more than we would like to believe, and that perhaps "post-racial" speaks to not a transparently-skinned world, but a world where race and ethnicity do not qualify you. I believe that Barack espouses the same idea, that he is neither more or less qualified to become the president of the United States because of the amount of melanin in his skin or the birthplace of his guardians. There are still some groups left to be emancipated. Gay people are certainly on their way. And the variety of people who fall under these labels of Jewish or Muslim or Asian or African or Hispanic or Native -- or Druid or Wicken or nudists or children or elderly or women or men or French or Italian or mutts or purebreds or hell, even those from Area 51, for that matter -- deserve a world in which their thoughts and actions are their currency. Or, as my ambivalence informs me, maybe they don't. If we have truly become newly awakened, let's all hope that it is to a world where the color, ethnicity, religion, and international background of people is the spice that informs us, rather than the meat that defines us. (That reminds me, I forgot about the vegans!) 2 out of 2 found this valuable. Do you? |
